darkangel1(Darrell)
Gates of Antares
Master of the Ravenwing
The Dark Angels the First Legion the true Angels of Death
Posts: 1,060
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Post by darkangel1(Darrell) on Jul 23, 2010 18:06:21 GMT
Guess what there is a 6 page FAQ on the new rulebook what a suprise. havnt gon through it yet but i hope a few questions will be answered
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Post by Stephen Mawson on Jul 23, 2010 18:30:53 GMT
Not surprising really. Lots of errata, and a whole bunch of questions. Nothing really stood out when I skimmed through it as particularly controversial.
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Jon Nicholls
Gates of Antares
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory...
Posts: 403
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Post by Jon Nicholls on Jul 23, 2010 21:11:42 GMT
I've also just noticed that there are new v1.1 updates for all the armies already!!
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Post by Stephen Mawson on Jul 23, 2010 22:49:49 GMT
Hmm, that I hadn't noticed. Better go check them out.
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Post by wstevens on Jul 24, 2010 0:03:57 GMT
Yep you better and come back and tell Carl and I that VC has not taken a bit hit. To add to this and please correct me if I'm wrong - a vamp lord on a zombie dragon even with 6 attacks on its profile is only allowed to attack 3 times now? (monster support) Is this correct as if it is that's another nail in the coffin - if you pardon the pun. What is the point in any six attack mount (HE, DE VC chaos or otherwise) when they can only have 3 max?
Empire detachments are not as good as what I thought they would be as initiative takes prescedence now. However I still like the idea of Alfred casket of sorcery but can't figure how this would help against TK incantations. Sure you could use the flaming attack incantation, or get the TK archers to shoot at their own units, and possibly move them into an undesirable area. You really can't use these on your own Empire troops. Could you use the raise dead back up incantation and refill your empire ranks? - methinks not.
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Post by Stephen Mawson on Jul 24, 2010 9:46:35 GMT
Warren, the support rule only applies for units of Monstrous creatures (Monstrous Infantry, Monstrous Beasts, Monstrous Cavalry, etc) that are fighting in ranks. Whatever is in the first rank fights normally with however many attacks it has. Each model in the second rank only gets to attack with at most three attacks as support.
Solitary monsters, whether being ridden by a character or not, will always get their full attacks, unless somehow they're in the second rank of a unit.
This is miles better than the standard support rule which only allows basic infantry, cavalry, and beasts units a single supporting attack per model. Which makes units of things like Ogres, Minotaurs, Trolls, Ushabti, much better as it's now worth taking bigger units to get a rank bonus, and a whole load of supporting attacks, and a bonus stomp attack on top.
I'm also getting a bit tired of people moaning about how their uber powerful VC army is now not massively powerful anymore. Yeah they're not as good as they were, which frankly is a bit of a relief, as the VC list under the old rules was overpowered and anything that brings it back more in line with the power level of the majority of armies is good.
On the empire detachments front, I guess they're going to need to be bigger to be effective now (take ranks off, etc). But since presumably the parent units are also going to get bigger that's not to big a problem.
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Post by wstevens on Jul 24, 2010 12:53:46 GMT
Tired? You must go for a rest then?
My VC army wasn't that uber compared to deamons and Dark elves in the last edition. However, note that none of those players are "moaning" in fact they have had a considerable bonus to their lists with these rules. Granted that VC now are just a mid tier army, why do we still have the other higher tier armies still dominating in this edition? Believe it or not I lost just as many games as I won with them. Difference now is that I will be losing far more on those stats. By the sounds of it you were one of those moaning about the fact VC were (were) supposedly powerful in the last edition. This does depend on the player and the army list and the same goes for this edition. As vampire count core unit stats are so rubbish in both editions (the worst in Warhammer fantasy) they are definately not going to get replenished ranks in a hurry. I've still got to get an answer for Invocation where the way I see it - is that this spell can only be cast once in the magic phase - no matter who has it. Only one type spell allowed per magic phase- have I got this wrong? Please say yes!
Thanks for the heads up on the supporting rule - I just misread that section. Julie likes this and says in bigger games she will be fielding a 520pt Ushabti unit!
As for Empire it looks like detachments of 20 troops then!
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Post by Stephen Mawson on Jul 24, 2010 14:52:49 GMT
Since the rulebook makes it clear on page 11 that where there is a contradiction between the main rulebook and an army book the army book takes precedence, that means that the VC Necromancy Spells rule on page 38 of the army book still applies. Which means that the necromancy spells can be cast more than once per magic phase by the same wizard.
So spam raising is still possible, just a slightly less attractive option, as failing a casting roll (or rolling only 1 or 2 on power dice in total) now means that that wizard can't cast any more spells in that magic phase. On the other hand a level 4 Vamp Lord will be looking at a casting roll of 7 or better as long as he doesn't roll a 1 or a 2, which makes each individual casting harder to stop.
Personally I think that some of the Daemons builds have also got slightly weaker under the new rules.
The all Tzeentch daemons super magic heavy army won't work as well as it did, simply because generating 16 plus power dice can't be done any more. Flamers are mildly less good as the change to the skirmisher rules makes them less flexible a shooting unit, due to the fact that they've now only got a 90 degree line of sight to the front. Also since all skirmishers now have a flank and a rear they can now be flank or rear charged making them a bit easier to take out in combat if you can out manoeuvre them.
The same applies to D.E shades, making them less flexible as well. But on the whole the D.E list have probably not been affected much by the rules. Most of what was good is still good.
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darkangel1(Darrell)
Gates of Antares
Master of the Ravenwing
The Dark Angels the First Legion the true Angels of Death
Posts: 1,060
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Post by darkangel1(Darrell) on Jul 24, 2010 18:31:49 GMT
i agree demon charicter choices are very important and if you want a lord in 2000 pts you have to make do with a so so greater demon or a demon prince plus 500 pts of heroes i am holding off judgement on the flamers while steve is correct in what he said he failed to say they can now march and shoot with a -1 modifier
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