Jon Nicholls
Gates of Antares
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory...
Posts: 403
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Post by Jon Nicholls on Jul 4, 2015 12:11:25 GMT
So, having spent the last few weeks reading internet rumours and feeling fed up with what I percieved GW were doing to WHFB the new games is finally out. I went into GW Kettering today to buy the latest White Dwarf, something I haven't done for a long time (though the free model was a good incentive! ?) OK, it isn't Fantasy as we knew it & it isn't 9th edition. However it isn't the complete disaster I was led to believe by "the internet". Good things on first read through: Free rules & War Scrolls, the new form of army lists (FREE??!? GW must've gone mad! ?) Nice new models Good back ground which moves the "fluff" on Hopefully quicker play Simplified rules... Slightly "dodgy" things (being kind!): Not points values! Not sure how this will work out as it is obviously possible to turn up with an army 10 times bigger than your opponent ...think it's supposed to encourage more "friendly" or "fluff" games (as opposed to all out tournament "power gaming" - of course if that's your thing you're going to like it even less!) Measuring between the models closest point NOT bases - again probably open to abuse, though it does mean you don't have re-base entire armies. Over simplified rules! That's it for now, not particularly in depth I know! I would like to give AoS a go a few times before I give up on it completely. However, I won't be giving up on 8th edition either. I think AoS will work better as a stand alone game rather than a total replacement... Jon
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Post by wstevens on Jul 5, 2015 9:46:37 GMT
Yeah I also saw the measure from the tip of the sword remark. That's it now I will put pikes on all my infantry! Seriously if your model is in cover and the end of the sword can be seen then all of you can be seen?
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Jon Nicholls
Gates of Antares
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory...
Posts: 403
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Post by Jon Nicholls on Jul 5, 2015 12:26:32 GMT
Yeah, over simplified rules!
Although I do quite like the lighter tone of AoS (to a certain extent!), I still can't believe GW have wholesale completely trashed WHFB with no official re-course to keep playing it as it was. It's things like "am I in cover or aren't I?" that are the reason WHFB (or indeed any wargame...) need more in depth rules.
GW have apparently in the (not too distant) past stated that they are a model company & not a rules writing company - 1) Surely it's a bit late for that - 30 yrs is a long time to decide that one of your main sales points isn't actually what you do... And 2) I don't think you can really write an official rules set and then expect people to effectively re-write it so it works...(I'm all for house rules, but there is a limit).
Possibly worse still, rumours abound that 40k is next....
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Post by carl on Jul 5, 2015 12:43:50 GMT
GW have always been a law unto themselves, and the fact they let their main rules writers, those that started their upward spiral, leave and go to work for others was the beginning of it, as was abandoning Warhammer Historical in my opinion.
personally, if they think that just selling models will keep them going they may be gravely mistaken. people bought their models to play their rulesets and because they had to if they wanted to enter 'official' events, and if they are going down the wrong path according to the same people, i.e. their customers, they will simply buy models from others such as Mantic.
maybe sticking to the current ruleset will keep people interested for a while longer... who knows.
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james
Frostgrave
Posts: 1,221
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Post by james on Jul 5, 2015 18:36:57 GMT
Like that it is free and allows you to play with what you have got - much better for a younger audience. Simplified rules have pros and cons but from recent experience simmer the better. I hope or suspect some kind of tournament lack will eventually follow to aid competitive play. Was surprised though they have effectively killed off wArhammer as we know it but with warlord and others offering good regiment deals and rules guess they have probably realised they can't compete on those lines. I think selling models first and rules second will work for them as although they were pricey there wasn't much money in the printed rules due to the cost of publication. Free online rules also means less wholesale rewrites I would hope. The only other thing I don't like is that they look too 40k to me...
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Post by carl on Jul 5, 2015 18:51:01 GMT
GW rulebooks have been overpriced for years, why does it cost £60 for theirs when others of equal quality in the historical periods csot less than half.
they missed a HUGE trick by not selling the small A5 books on their own
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par
Spearman
Posts: 33
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Post by par on Jul 5, 2015 21:07:25 GMT
wow free rules from GW
i can see why they changed things to lure in new players the costs of a half competitive army were huge. at least now kids can get a couple of boxes of miniatures & play
its sad for those of you who have invested heavily in tournament army's,hopefully people will keep on with 8th edition.(epic Armageddon has got considerably better since GW ditched it & still has a decent tournament scene including a European championship with teams from 4 countries) i suppose GW had to do something radical with sales of fantasy falling & other possibly better definitely cheaper games written from the ground up for tournament play (infinity, malfax, warmachine, bolt action ect) nicking their players
as for the rules(although abstract & in places very very silly) they seem have the same spirit as 2nd & 3rd edition warhammer which got me into wargaming when i was a kid. the old box sets like orks drift & mcdeath did not bother with points or balance but were very good fun to play, maybe this is what they are attempting to go back to
all that said i cant quite believe i am considering playing something written GW again, but i have seen some simple fixes that should make it at least a fun game to play
i think will fish out my old army & try a few games if only for nostalgia sake
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Post by wstevens on Jul 5, 2015 21:16:09 GMT
To get in an insight in how this played - this was quite a good first try - lasts an hour though AoS battle on youtube
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Jon Nicholls
Gates of Antares
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory...
Posts: 403
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Post by Jon Nicholls on Jul 5, 2015 22:06:20 GMT
I watched this earlier. I'm not sure it's a great advert for the game!
However I too still want to give it a go, maybe smaller armies to start with.
I'm not a big competitive/tournament player, basically I only do this as a hobby for a bit of fun. I like the back ground stories/fluff and try to build armies accordingly, which is probably why I lose a lot! As I said I will try AoS, I will probably even enjoy it...it's probably best to view the game as entirely new, rather than a "traditional" update.
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Post by Simon Robinson on Jul 5, 2015 22:38:05 GMT
GW as citadel did figures before rules. I remember 1st edition warhammer all those years ago.
Going back to their core business might be a good move after all most figure manufacturers don't print rules - GW largely introduced the concept so they could sell figures.
Before warhammer you only needed enough orcs to play D&D say 20 max. With mass battles then you needed 4 or 5 times that number and so did your opponent
Airfix also did some rules but that was more as an afterthought- people already bought their figures the books were designed to get a novice interested. Their ancient war gaming book actually just recommended the WRG rules
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par
Spearman
Posts: 33
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Post by par on Jul 14, 2015 22:27:55 GMT
had a game of this it was surprisingly good i lost due to my usual bad decision making not because who took what we played Lizzie v dwarf patrols using this dudes army making PDF the sides felt balanced & we had a hard fought game www.louisvillewargaming.com/Files/AzyrComp.pdf
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Post by tiger1 (Paul) on Jul 17, 2015 19:00:01 GMT
Dan Mersey is writing a set of fantasy rules in the autumn they should be a nice funset to play. But I do not understand gw backing out of rule writing after all the white dwarf extra rules and unit details must have made them a fortune. Don't get it ??
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Post by wstevens on Jul 26, 2015 18:08:49 GMT
If they are not making rules etc then there will be no writers to put on the payroll. Although saying that they still need new AoS unit warscrolls to write up when new unit models are released.
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