|
Post by Andy"windy"Miller on Nov 25, 2008 11:42:41 GMT
Well ladies and gents, the story so far- Got suckered in to the club at Kelmarsh , I've got a flames of war army up, running and expanding. This is still going to take a fair amount of time to build. I want a fantasy army to play when FoW or Wings of war isn't happening. So here's the question. What do I choose? I've done a little research, but I'm after some advice. To give you a hint I prefer to play fewer elite troops than massed hoards, I love projectile weapons. Really enjoyed the "shock troop" when I used a giant in the demo game early October. Apart from that, my painting is passable, not great and don't want to do loads of figures. Quality not quantity. My first leaning is toward High Elves! Suggestions/ Advice please. p.s. Happy to buy an existing army and tinker with it. ( this is not an invite to sell me any stuff you just want to get rid of though ;D )
|
|
|
Post by Stephen Mawson on Nov 25, 2008 12:34:14 GMT
From the sounds of it all three of the Elven armies (High Elves, Wood Elves, Dark Elves) you can play in Warhammer would probably fit the bill.
All three emphasise the use of smaller high quality units over larger numbers of lesser troops, plus all three tend to be focussed more on long range shooting than melee combat.
High Elves High Elves are probably the most focused on elite units, they use a different army selection mechanism to other armies, which means you can have more Special and Rare choices than other armies. High Elves are also the most expensive in terms of points per man, which means the units fielded are normally small.
They are decent at shooting, the Eagle Claw Bolt Throwers are fantastic, and the archers are pretty good, but there are more shooty armies out there. They can also be a very magically strong army, both offensively and defensively and this coupled with the missile fire makes them dangerous at range.
In close combat most High Elf units have good initial punch, but with one or two exceptions can lack staying power.
Their major weaknesses are the small number and size of their units, coupled with low toughness and low armour, which makes them less survivable.
Dark Elves Are slightly less focused on elite units than the High Elves, they still have a number of very good elite troops, but their basic core units are cheaper than the High Elves.
The Dark Elves shooting is slightly less long ranged than the High Elves, but the army can put out a fierce some number of shots, with many, carrying repeater crossbows. The Reaper Bolt Thrower is the same as the High Elf Eagle Claw and adds extra long ranged shooting to the army. So on balanced the army is slightly higher firepower than the high elves.
The Elite units like Cold One Knights and Executioners have great close combat punch, but all round the Dark Elf army is slightly less effective in combat than High Elves.
The do also have in the War Hydra a large terror causing monster, which the High Elf army lacks unless you have a Dragon mounted character (v expensive).
They have similar weaknesses to the High Elves, the units are generally fragile due to low toughness and in most cases a low armour save. But this is balanced up slightly as a Dark Elf army will normally be larger than a High Elf one so more damage can be absorbed.
Wood Elves The Wood Elf army plays very differently to the other two; it’s much more focused on being highly manoeuvrable, and striking at the weak points of your opponent’s army.
It has no war machines, but the bow armed units it contains are more effective than those of other armies and less static as well. This allows you to target the enemies vulnerable units with a hail of arrows out of the forest.
The Dryads and War Dancers are vicious in combat, as are the Wild Riders, but unlike both High and Dark Elves these units don’t really want to try and slam into the front of the enemy army, rather to slip around the flanks and attack from the side or rear.
The Treeman and Treekin give you some big, tough and scary units that can afford to wade straight into the enemy and dish out some damage.
Wood Elf magic tends to be more defensive than offensive, but Tree Singing can be a major pain in the bum.
When giving out army advice I always suggest that people go for armies that they like the look of, background too, etc. As these are the armies you’re more likely to find enjoyable to both paint and to play. Whether an army is effective on the table top ought to be a secondary consideration.
If you fancy playing proud, noble and highly skilful warriors then High Elves are for you. If you prefer vicious bloodthirsty killers then go for Dark Elves. Otherwise if wild warriors aided by the primal forces of nature sounds good to you then maybe you should choose Wood Elves.
|
|
|
Post by mike on Nov 25, 2008 13:57:51 GMT
Hi Windy
Well, I was going to offer a little advice, but Stephen has just just about said it all so I'll just second everything he said.
Another thought - if you're looking for shooty, it might be worth looking at the Dwarves, or even the Empire (lots of guns) - in fact, I gave the Empire some serious consideration for my second army (it was gnoblar silliness that finally swung it in favour of the ogres).
Alternately, if you like shock troops, Britonian Knights are hard to fault.
In the final analysis, we could go on arguing the relative merits of the different armies until the cows come home. So, the best advice I can offer is - cast your eye over a few armies (there are plenty kicking around the club) and pick the one you like the look of.
Mike
P.S. I'm playing with my ogres for the next couple of weeks (Jon today and Warren next week), but I'll bring my High Elves down as well so you can try them out (you ain't gonna get to keep 'em cos I ain't selling but I don't mind you bowrrowing them for an evening).
Also, the first week I'm free (9th Dec) I'll bring both armies down and give you a game - I'll even let you pick the army you want.
|
|
|
Post by Stephen Mawson on Nov 25, 2008 14:16:00 GMT
While the Empire and Dwarf armies can be very shooty, neither of then falls into the elite units category.
The Empire army is the most flexible army you can play, you can field anything from a entirely shooting black powder gunline, to an all out close combat heavy cavalry force and many things in between.
The Dwarf army is essentially a defensive force, blocks of slow but solid infantry backed up with war machines and missile weapons. The normal tactic with Dwarfs is to hold back and try and force your opponent to attack your infantry in the front with their units, while whittling them down with your firepower.
|
|
|
Post by Andy"windy"Miller on Nov 25, 2008 15:02:43 GMT
This is all great and much appreciated, cheers guys. Happy to have a look round tonight, helping with FoW game. Playing FoW next week, but the offer for the 9th is greatfully accepted Mike. I do need to check my diary as I have a parents evening around then. I might be adding to the Wayland order Stephen, if I pull my finger out, when are you sending it?
|
|
|
Post by Stephen Mawson on Nov 25, 2008 15:40:29 GMT
I'd like to have the order sorted out by next weeks meeting at the latest really, otherwise we're starting to run the risk of it not being delivered by Christmas.
So I could really do with knowing what you want within the next few days to be honest.
|
|
|
Post by mike on Nov 25, 2008 16:45:02 GMT
OK Windy - we're set for the 9th
Just let me know if the perants evening gets in the way please
|
|
|
Post by carl on Nov 25, 2008 17:06:39 GMT
Windy; Matt has some dwarves for sale on this forum and whilst they are shooty there are few elite troops as Steve says. I have a Chaos army for sale which whilst it is usually smaller than most others and has some heavy elite troops (new army book just released) they only have one shooty thing which is the Hellcannon, which i happen to have. Let me know if you are interested.
|
|
|
Post by wstevens on Nov 25, 2008 18:20:05 GMT
Have a look at David's Chaos Warrior force - not much in it but very strong, also its a less amount of troops to paint up which could be an option. However if you buy off Carl they would be already done!
Woodelves use what we call MSUs which are Multiple Small Units which Stephen has pointed out are very good for maneouvering around the enemy.
Vampire Counts however can sport a number of elite units but the core choices will always lean towards having a semi-horde army - which could grow into a larger horde army. To be honest elite forces can be found in any army - its really what you want to put into it when designing one which is personal to your tastes.
|
|
|
Post by Andy"windy"Miller on Nov 26, 2008 9:02:21 GMT
Mike, I do have a parents evening on the 9th so I'll need to postpone our game, but thanks for the offer anyway. Andy
|
|
|
Post by mike on Nov 26, 2008 12:49:36 GMT
No problem Andy
Just let me know when you're free and we'll reschedule
Mike
|
|
darkangel1(Darrell)
Gates of Antares
Master of the Ravenwing
The Dark Angels the First Legion the true Angels of Death
Posts: 1,060
|
Post by darkangel1(Darrell) on Nov 26, 2008 18:28:18 GMT
windyi have just had a look at the high elves to lt you know what you are getting. 15x arcers including full command 15x spearmen including full command 8x reavers including full command 1x bolt thrower 2x mages 1x giant eagle all fully painted and based plus a box of bits
|
|
|
Post by carl on Nov 26, 2008 18:37:42 GMT
an absolute bargain.
|
|
|
Post by Andy"windy"Miller on Nov 26, 2008 20:46:57 GMT
Sure is, very happy with that. in case anyone hadn't guessed it's going to be High Elves Elite and shooty ;D Need to gen up on the magic though. Cheers for all the advice everyone. Wayland are getting an addition to there order (hopefully you have these Stephen?).
|
|
|
Post by mike on Nov 27, 2008 9:07:43 GMT
Hi Andy
That certainly looks like a good start - looks like about 1000 pts to me (only a rough guess - I don't have the army book to hand)
To that I'd add at least one more bolt thrower (worth their weight in gold), some heavy cavalry (dragon princes for preference), some more archers (always useful) and some elite infantry (swordmasters or pheonix guard) just because they can carry a magic banner (and the elves have some pretty good ones)
After that, I'd give serious thought to a dragon - yes, I know they're expensive (350pts for a L1 dragon mage on a sun dragon - and that's without tooling up), but they do have a certain presence
Mike
|
|