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Post by carl on Jan 9, 2012 19:56:35 GMT
so, does that mean that the axes event might have to be increased to 2000pts this year and still have roughly similar numbers of models on the table.
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Post by Simon Robinson on Jan 9, 2012 20:31:51 GMT
I haven't the heart to break it to you about the Testudo (only allowed with opponents permission now = well it's a formation intended for sieges not open battles) - OK I do have the heart to break it to you
Legionaries are now classed as Raw, Seasoned and Elite. Costing 15,17,24 respectively
The closest thing to Veteran is Elite - they are BS3 not 4 but the rest of the stat line is the same. They are drilled and stubborn and may be upgraded to Veteran (+1) . They have Hand Weapon, Light Armour, Large Shield and Pilum (Heavy Throwing spear).
Over all I think the point system has been reworked to provide the ability to better cost troop types (i.e figures that both used to cost 10pt can now be costed 10pts and 11pts if necessary)
I know on the face of it the Veterans now cost more, but you have more points. Based on 2000old = 2800 new you would expect 20pt models to cost 28pts in the new system - so 24pts new equates to 17pts old so actually they are cheaper.
Basic Hypastist (no upgrades) cost 21 each and used to cost 14 - effectively they have increased by 1 pt (21new = 15 old) - not sure how Warren gets 30 as I don't know what upgrades he applied BUT 30 new is 21 old so it's cost under the old system would be interesting
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Post by Simon Robinson on Jan 9, 2012 20:34:40 GMT
As for the points allowed at Axes 2012 - I have to play a few games with the new lists before deciding, but it is a possibility.
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Post by Simon Robinson on Jan 9, 2012 20:40:28 GMT
Oh and since basic Hird now cost 20 (14 in old money) they haven't changed relative cost they have merely exchanged T4 for shieldwall and the ability to charge you while in shieldwall
not a bad deal really
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Post by wstevens on Jan 9, 2012 22:19:03 GMT
Basic Hypastist (no upgrades) cost 21 each and used to cost 14 - effectively they have increased by 1 pt (21new = 15 old) - not sure how Warren gets 30 as I don't know what upgrades he applied BUT 30 new is 21 old so it's cost under the old system would be interesting What? When have you ever seen my Hypaspists go naked ... ok some of my models may being showing a bit too much ;D but I always use Agema, So 21 pts basic, +2 pts for Light armour, thrusting spear and Large shield option +2 pts, Stubborn +3pts make that 28pts and not 30pts as I noticed that Hypaspists were inheritently drilled ( which would have been another 2 points however noticed this was just for phalangites). So a saving of 36pts off the total. Although tempting to make them veterans for +1pt.
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Post by Simon Robinson on Jan 10, 2012 9:20:13 GMT
OK so they're 28 new points, which is the same as 20 old points.
What did they used to cost you in the old supplement?
I think the big problem we're having at the momnet is just a matter of getting our heads round the new system - much like the issues people had when we went decimal. Water still boild at the same temperature it just has a different number assigned to it. 0 celsius is not colder than 32F.
To convert old points to new simply multiply by 1.4.
You'll notice also that most of the time the base cost of figures has been changed but the cost of upgrades generally haven't been amended (the only one i could find is two-handed axe increased from 2 to 3)
All in all I think we need to use the lists before we decide what is and is not expensive
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james
Frostgrave
Posts: 1,221
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Post by james on Jan 10, 2012 19:40:21 GMT
Darn...
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Post by wstevens on Jan 10, 2012 23:45:07 GMT
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Post by tiger1 (Paul) on Jan 11, 2012 0:13:59 GMT
I have checked my copy which is ok, I think it was just a handful of copies with the misprint issue Overall its about playing games under the new points system. I would suggest we pick a number to start with, could be 1800 then 200 then just to see how the armies play. Personnally I tink the vikings are better with berserkers who you have to fight in H2H rather than surge out, whihc means my light infantry trick is no longer valid, I have to go toe to toe- ouch. and the shield wall capability. I thnk my Picts / early fuedal scots are handicapped, being light infantry - however the strategem rule may compensate. lets see
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Post by Simon Robinson on Jan 11, 2012 9:34:32 GMT
I haven't noticed any missing pages but will have do a proper check later.
Paul is right, we need to use the army lists before we get hung up on what we think our favourite lists have lost or how expensive our most deadly units are
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james
Frostgrave
Posts: 1,221
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Post by james on Jan 11, 2012 20:49:10 GMT
Play some games boys!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Simon Robinson on Jan 12, 2012 9:12:01 GMT
My first game under the new points is arranged for the 24th vs Warren
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Post by tiger1 (Paul) on Jan 14, 2012 12:36:06 GMT
e official results are in and I can now confirm in no particular order, silence loud annoying music
My 1500 Picts now = 1999 - cost of generals has increased, cavalry increased and infantry by a massive 150% !!! Ah plus 20points for strategem if I use it, considering the nature of the army a must have i believe.
AND I have lost pike which was really fun and i reckon the only thing keeping this army in the Hunt. Mind you have valuable will strategem be hmmmm.
now to price my saxons and viking guys
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Post by Simon Robinson on Jan 25, 2012 10:22:36 GMT
Well my first game using an AoA2 Army has been played.
I took an Early Hoplite Greek Spartan army which basically used the same models as my old version of a Greek army as I only have a limited selection of figures (I must get a few more). Stacked up against Warren's Later Achaemenid Persians .
The 2100 point game played much like an old value 1500pt game.
Not too many units, enough room to actually move troops around the board. No unit seemed to be overly powerful for the points paid or overpriced. The game could have gone either way - the dice gave and took away for both sides.
I know it's only one game and it was an historical match up, but if the rest of the lists work this well I personally shall be very pleased with the book.
The new points system works and it really is just a case of changing how you view things. Forget the old 2000point mindset carried over from WFB and perpetuated for many years and embrace the joys of 2800! Well since I prefer smaller faster games forget 1500 and enjoy 2100.
Cheers ;D
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Post by wstevens on Jan 29, 2012 14:19:24 GMT
The Levy rules really hamper the Persian army. They have quite rubbish stats as it is reflecting their ineptness on the battlefield. However I refuse to believe given the amount of historical reading I have done, that Bactrian Cavalry were gutless cowards. Ok usually they aren't but mine were. I feel as if these should not be given levy status under "Satrapal". Pointswise the Levy horse are very expensive. However the skirmish levy are nice and cheap but not much of a screening force if the enemy are within charging range. On a leadership of 3 they are just going to bolt when they do their fear test against formed units - good for pinging off arrows though at 2pts each! Next time I may just horde up with 40 skirmishers with short bows for 80 pts!
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