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Post by Kierons on Apr 18, 2010 19:12:45 GMT
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Post by wstevens on Apr 19, 2010 16:20:32 GMT
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Post by carl on Apr 19, 2010 17:08:52 GMT
seen some of the rumours too. Flames of war style combat resolution, basically you keep fighting until one side wins etc.
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Jon Nicholls
Gates of Antares
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory...
Posts: 403
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Post by Jon Nicholls on Apr 19, 2010 17:25:27 GMT
Got the GW e-mail about this last night. Was basicaly just a picture of what, I assume, will be the rule book cover and some back ground fluff. If the picture is anything to go by (which it isn't necessarily!) the armies in the box will be Empire & Chaos Warriors.
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Jon Nicholls
Gates of Antares
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory...
Posts: 403
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Post by Jon Nicholls on Apr 19, 2010 18:25:35 GMT
According to the thread on Kierons post it's Skaven & Elves in the box. The e-mail I got was the top post of the same thread. Have to say though, I'm finding it hard to muster any enthusiasm for it. I'm enjoying playing 40k at the moment too. I'll wait and see what changes they make before I commit to forking out another £50-60 on models I don't need and/or the rule book. Otherwise I'll probably carry on playing the old edition if I can. Maybe even go back to 6th, as the changes made for 7th ed were, if not actualy pointless, just a bit unnecessary on the whole. Though as I said, I will give it a fair shot... Just my 2p worth
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Post by shamutanti on Apr 19, 2010 19:21:44 GMT
Not going to be playing much of 8th edition if what some of the rumours are true. Knee jerk potentially but it drove me flipping mad having to use percentages on everything (partially because it was always so easy for people to 'cheat' without meaning to). Alot of the changes seem to be more for the sake of. I'll have a read through the book then make my decision. I personally liked 7th edition over 6th though It's really all down to how the rules actually play - which sometimes is far harder to tell until you get stuck in, because reading about something being this way or that may sound brilliant or diabolical. But when you get into the real meat n' gravy, things unnoticed, suddenly emerge.
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Post by carl on Apr 19, 2010 19:37:07 GMT
personally, if we as a club and individuals aren't going to GW run tournies i'd like to stick to 7th ed if the rules go too stupid.
will also be getting some more games of 40k in this year. seems like gw wants to make whfb more like a 40k style fantasy so kids play it
OR
here's a sneaky idea, why dont the club look to buy the boxed game get the small rulebook and photocopy the changes for members to try them, and we can either sell the models to members or use them as raffle prizes at crimbo.
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Jon Nicholls
Gates of Antares
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory...
Posts: 403
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Post by Jon Nicholls on Apr 19, 2010 21:19:31 GMT
@ Carl - Not sure about the photocopying idea - would be on very dodgy ground in terms of copyright infringement! But I understand what you're saying. @ Shamutanti - I'd also read about the % thing. The last time it was used was before my time (gaming-wise), but it does sound like a bit of nightmare! & surely they'd have to rewrite all the books? Which considering not even half the armies got a rewrite for 7th ed, is a bit much. As for which ed I'd prefer to play, maybe I was a bit hasty:). I do like the magic limitations in 7th (with regards the power dice usage), although (& more to the point) being a Wood Elf player I don't like my nice skirmishing units being march blocked!!
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Post by carl on Apr 19, 2010 21:24:26 GMT
i thought it said somewhere that you can photocopy pages to use / play the game.
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Post by carl on Apr 22, 2010 21:36:06 GMT
some rumours from WARSEER
More reliable rumours
* Army construction is moving back to percentages. * Strength in Depth/ Stepping up * Crush attack for larger creatures * 40mm models moving to 3 model-wide ranks. * Multiple objective driven scenarios in the rulebook * All non-english rulebooks are moving to inches. * Power dice aren’t generated by the number of spellcasters. The pool is decided by 2D6. Magic users add their magic level to the score rolled. All Wizards have a chance to generate more power dice. * All missile units fire in two ranks (not just High Elves). Missile units will not gain a rank when shooting from hills. * Autobreaking from fear or terror is gone.
Warhammer 8th Ed Rulebook to be released July 10th 500+ pages (possibly 528) Possibly going to get the pdf erratas for all armies on July 6th
Other rumours (and description of above)
These are all listed in no particular order.
ARMY SELECTION
* Army construction is moving back to percentages. This is looking more like 25% max characters, 25% min core, 25% max special and 25% max rare (anonymous source, but trustworthy ) The 25% characters includes mounts.
Edit. Just as I thought this part was looking certain, there have been some rumours/ sources saying 25% max characters, 25% min core, 50% max special and 15% max rare. I will edit one out as it become clear.
* Categories for core/special/rare are remaining. * There *may* be something to prevent spamming... * There will be a system wide errata to clear up issues for each army.
MAGIC
NOTE: The magic rumours nobody seems to agree on, so rather than try and find what exactly the truth is I will just put here most of the theories
Edit: I've sorted out the ones that seem more likely, based on the info from an anonymous (trustworthy) source:
* Power dice aren’t generated by the number of spellcasters. The pool is decided by 2D6. Magic users add their magic level to the score rolled. All Wizards have a chance to generate more power dice. - Avian (edit: This could be 1 PD for lvl 1/2 and 2 PD for lvl 3/4). Example: 2D6 roll gives you 3 and 6. You have 1 level 2 and 1 level 4. Power dice =9+1+2 = 12
* Giving irresistible force a downside * Double 6 = a miscast * Making miscasts much more devastating. * Something rumoured is carrying over power dice, but holding too many could lead to a ‘magic backlash’. Wizard will recieve wounds or hits if he didn't use the excess power-dice (than originally allocated) at end of the turn. * All the book Lores will have more supportive spells than they have now, and will all be getting a major overhaul. Each lore to get a mega spell. * Spells can be chosen, not rolled for.
And the other rumours:
* There's no limit to the number of dice used to cast a spell, by any level of caster. * If a wizard fails to cast (not counting dispels) twice in a row he miscasts * Dispel scroll only adding dispel dice (+2 dice to the dispel dice pool once per game). (edit - possibly speculation) * Dispel attempts to be made by specific wizards (presumable your casting level is beneficial for dispelling spells) * A higher chance of miscast with multiple casters. * If a wizard fail to cast a spell he can't cast other spells in the same phase.
COMBAT
NOTE: Trying to nail down what the facts are here is very hard. Some of this is only my understanding of what has been discussed.
What is 100% clear is that models in the second rank will have some role to play in most combats.
Stepping up. – Harry/ Avian
* Basically how this works is that the second rank get to fight only if the guy in front is killed. But they only get a single attack regardless of what their profile attacks are, or what weapons they are carrying* . It is not clear yet whether they get to use special rules in addition to this or not at all (frenzy, hatred and killing blow etc). Only once there are insufficient models left to replace those that are killed in the attacking rank will the overall attacks of the unit drop.
*It has yet to be clarified exactly how models with spears get to use them.
No word on the impact for High Elves. Possibly the spearelves will fight with an additional rank.
Cavalry still only fight in 1 rank.
Example:
You have a unit of 20 guys, 5x4, 5 of which are in base contact with the enemy and 15 are not. The enemy strikes first and kills 6 of your guys. As you now have 14 models you have sufficient numbers to step up and replace casualties.
Because the front 2 ranks consists of 10 models overall, 6 of which are now dead, you still get to fight back with 4 models. In the next round of combat, the ranks are reset, so 5 models are in base contact, 5 in the second rank (capable of ‘stepping up’) and 4 in the third (remember, you still have 14 models). This time the enemy kills a further 8 models, leaving you with 2 models that get to fight back and a unit of 6.
This is the same regardless of which side they are attacked on.
Horde
* Fight in 3 ranks if 10+ wide (4 with spears). - Avian. OR Some benefit to fighting in large units, may automatically become stubborn beyond a certain unit size. – Harry - (edit) seemingly confirmed from another source).
Another edit: Seems this Horde rule may work like this: If the unit is 10+ wide and 5 ranks deep (50+ models) the front 2 ranks may all fight, regardless of whether they are in base contact. My guess is that this is using their regular weapons (not just a hand weapon), as it would explain how people have got up to 5 ranks in combat (2 front, Spears = 3, Citizen levy = 4, Horde = 5). At this stage just another rumour.
Rank bonuses
* A unit may still get up to +3 for being 5 wide. A new rumour is that they can get an additional rank bonus up to +4 for each additional model wide that they are. (awaiting confirmation, if this is true, on how it will work.
Fighting in 2 ranks
* Lots of rumours are suggesting that units may all fight in 2 ranks as standard... Take with salt at this stage
One Save to ruin them all!
* Models will only ever get one save (be it ward, mundane or magical armour). No word yet on whether regeneration is included. From Alessio himself!
40mm models
* 40mm models moving to 3 model-wide ranks. Ogre sized models are officially being put into their own size category (finally).
Crush them!
* Additional stomp/crush attacks for big infantry (ogres, trolls, etc) to represent them trampling lesser races underfoot. Bigger bonus for large creatures like giants. These are not impact hits. (edit: these could be overrun hits)
Armour Save Modifiers
* Fewer armour save modifiers
Striking in Initiative order
* Combat will be resolved in initiative order. This rumour is coming from many different places. I'm currently trying to get more info.
Chariots
* S7 autokill is gone. (edit: possibly not speculation)
MOVEMENT
Standard Movement
* Measure the distance for the furthest moving model, and perform whatever manoeuvres you wish within that lax limitation (i.e. they all move like fast cav currently do, minus the reform). Command models will have some role to play in giving free manoeuvre as you move (Musician bonus similar to Ancient Battles?).
Charging.
* An added 'bonus' of getting an 'extra' +D6 or +D3 inches of movement to your Movement range (presumably the D6 or D3 decided by the category of warrior; infantry/cavalry/ogre sized). Edit; rumoured to be:
Movement equal to or less than 6 (and not flying): -> Basic M value + D6
Movement equal to or more than 7 (and not flying): -> Basic M value + 2D6
Heavy cavalry
* - Heavy cavalry, defined as any cavalry with a 2+ or better save, cannot march. They can double their move when charging as normal, but they are not allowed to make a March move. - "Medium and Fast cavalry remain the same".
SHOOTING
Armour Save Modifiers
* As it happens to be the same rumour; fewer armour save modifiers.
Fire in 2 ranks as standard.
* Missile units fire in two ranks (not just High Elves). - Harry & someone else. Missile units will not gain a rank when shooting from hills.
PSYCHOLOGY and SPECIAL RULES
Fear and Terror
* Edit: this may be
Fear +1 to Combat resolution Terror +2 to Combat resolution * Autobreaking from fear or terror is gone. * Leadership tests against fear is rumoured to be going * Fear and Terror incorporate immune to panic (with possibly a change to crumbling for undead).
Killing Blow
* Killing blow only against models in a similar size category or lower (large creature>ogre sized> infantry/cavalry sized)
OTHER RULEBOOK CONTENTS
* Multiple objective driven scenarios in the rulebook (no kill points). See GW grand tournament and doubles scenarios.
* 15 or so missions in the new rulebook. 9 or 10 of the missions required Core units to capture objectives. Units must have banners to capture objectives. Several missions had multiple objectives
* Victory Conditions Interestingly something I picked up from a post was that ‘victory conditions’ have been referred to in the last 3 books, not victory points.
* A section in the rulebook dealing with specific issues that may arise during battles
Terrain
* Difficult terrain may be merged with very difficult and encompass more things (presumably more than just affecting movement). * D6+4 cumpulsory terrain. * Terrain will not affect the movement phase so much but will affect fleeing units, like in the War of the Ring game. * Bonuses and hazards for terrain (such as rolling the dice to see how many people don’t make it out of the wood...).
Discredited rumours Fight-until-someone-breaks Lapping around Weapons using the flame template or large or small blast templates automatically hit any model in contact rather than cause partial hits. __________________
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Post by shamutanti on Apr 22, 2010 23:21:03 GMT
Just so you know:
Martin, the current manager of GW Northampton, told me today that he's seen the rulebook. He can't tell me what's inside of it but he did confirm to myself and many others in the shop that the book is 515 pages in size and is being based around (and thus made to support) 3,000point games.
This means that percentages are thus likely to become the appropriate applicative system.
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Post by shamutanti on Apr 22, 2010 23:23:20 GMT
He also claimed that, although this isn't as concrete, because they all got to look at a page and only a few saw the 'best' pages if you will, that monsters will become 'better' at dealing with combat resolution, whilst 3 rank bonus units are supposedly 'nails' and more things can fight in 2 ranks.
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Post by wstevens on Apr 23, 2010 0:13:46 GMT
Don't know what all the fuss is about for percentages - WAB players have been doing this for years. Cough! Not seen WAB 2.0 so I hope they don't go all 7th Ed WFB on us.
Nice to see the giant finally getting his points worth - CRUSH - I like that. Although really don't like the autobreak cancel on Fear and Terror. That has just caned undead and now makes skellies really pants.
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Post by carl on Apr 23, 2010 16:15:02 GMT
also, i hope that the rumour re not autokilling a chariot with a S7 atttack from a human sized figure is correct. always said that was wrong, when a S6 giant or dragon couldn't do the same thing.
bonkers that was.
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Post by wstevens on Apr 23, 2010 18:03:45 GMT
The more I look at the rumours the more I relunctant I am to field undead. Lord vampires will be nigh impossible to field at 2000pts. Try and cop 4 vampire heroes incl a lord for 500pts is going to be nigh impossible to do without drastically limiting all sorts of goodies. No dragon then or if you do no other heroes at all unless the lord goes "naked". Not a good idea at all. Then the no spamming the dice for Raise and Invocations of Nehek will effect undead. As well as getting rid of autobreak from fear etc... I can't see where GW have made VC good. In fact they have made them a lot worse if these rumours are anything to go buy. I cannot see one single advantage or bonus here. Ohh missile weapons can shoot in two ranks - er don't have any shooting... noted also a change for crumbling for undead with - gone will be the fear tests (leadership test). This looks rather bad! As movement is a big thing for undead having to go on the roll of the dice is almost suicidal.
Has anybody spotted anything good for undead here as I can't see anything at all - if you do please let me know as I'm ready to throw this lot away and concentrate on WAB.
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