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Post by Simon Robinson on May 1, 2014 22:29:47 GMT
This is the thread to raise issues (and get them answered) regarding Axes'14.
As usualm where apppropriate, things discussed here will find their way into revisions of the rules, scenarios, army lists or FAQ documents.
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Post by Simon Robinson on May 1, 2014 22:32:47 GMT
Ruling - for the purposes of this event all cannons / organ guns are assumed to have wheels (and can therefore be moved during a game) regardless of whether or not the model has wheels.
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Post by davep2 on Aug 9, 2014 17:56:46 GMT
Hi Simon. Have finally played scenario 1, here's a few questions. When choosing who begins to deploy first, are the baggage elements to be included in the initial unit total ? If yes, do they count as one unit or three ? Are they deployed as three individual units, or simultaneously like bolt-throwers ?
6" gap between baggage elements. Is this 6" between the front of element 1 and the front of element 2, or 6" between the rear of element 1 and the front of element 2 ? In the latter case , element 3 is unlikely to leave the table.
Is the usual 4" pre-game move for skirmishers allowed ? I'm guessing not.
Page 4 para 2 is incomplete. How should it finish ?
Page 5 para 1. Does close combat refer to the close-combat phase ? Therefore, if you fight the baggage escorts, you may not sack the baggage until the next combat phase. Similarly, if you pursue into baggage - pursuit normally occurs after the combat phase, therefore you cannot sack it until the next combat phase. Is this correct ?
Are a minimum number of models required to sack baggage ? At least a unit strength of 5 ? If an elephant stampedes into anybodies baggage, should the baggage be destroyed ? At what point in the turn sequence does baggage leave the table ? Does baggage or its escort only have to touch the table-edge in order to depart ? Scenario 2. Page 8 Mist.If a unit scatters through another unit, does it stop, pass-through, bounce-off or what ? Are elephants affected by mud or snow, if yes, what speed reduction ? Sorry to have left it so late. Have had no chance to play it. Dave.P
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Post by wstevens on Aug 10, 2014 12:49:25 GMT
Dave - Simon is currently on holiday and apparently without internet access. He will be back in the next day or two and should answer all your questions although there are quite a few here which I am sure he will answer when he comes back. Actually these are all very good questions and I am now awaiting answers to them so well done in bringing them up.
The "element 3" of the baggage train is one that Julie and I wondered about - would it ever get off the table? If terrain is put in its way there is no way it will come off. If you attach it to a unit you have to be careful about the movement allowance for the unit and the baggage. However I note with interest that although it would appear that the baggage needs to get off the battlefield this really isn't the case. If you look at the scenario points you get 300 as the defender if its not sacked but only 75pts as the attacker if you do. Why try and get them off the board? There is nothing that says you have to and there are no points allocated to it if you do save the "unsacked" ones. So why not corrall and let them come!!!
With the mist question I would have thought that if the unit bumped into another unit, it would have found an element of its army and would have stopped an inch away from it. I doubt in real terms a lost unit would find one of its army components and ignore it by marching through it.
I do like the stampede and destroy baggage for elephants. I believe the baggage or escort needs to over touch to get off the board. Say its 6inches away and you had a movement of 6 inches it wouldn't get off as you would need 7 inches to effectively get off rather than hug the area.
For the incomplete 2nd paragraph on page 4 i think you ignore the word "either".
Happy to be corrected on all the above by Simon. These are just my takes - others that I have not commented on are best left to Simon as I wouldn't like to say (yeah I just don't know).
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Post by davep2 on Aug 11, 2014 17:50:24 GMT
Hi Simon. Does an element of baggage block line of sight for missile fire and/or impart soft cover for troops behind it ? Can baggage be targeted/ destroyed by naffatum or cannon-fire ?
Dave
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Post by Simon Robinson on Aug 12, 2014 7:02:05 GMT
Sorry about the delay in answering:
Q) When choosing who begins to deploy first, are the baggage elements to be included in the initial unit total ? If yes, do they count as one unit or three ? Are they deployed as three individual units, or simultaneously like bolt-throwers ? A: Baggage units are counted in the initial total, count individually and are deployed one at a time
Q) 6" gap between baggage elements. Is this 6" between the front of element 1 and the front of element 2, or 6" between the rear of element 1 and the front of element 2 ? In the latter case , element 3 is unlikely to leave the table. A: The latter case applies. Although this means that element 3 cannot leave the table in the turns available the owning player gets the points for it at the end of the game so as long as you own you get the points regardless of if you got it off the table or not
Is the usual 4" pre-game move for skirmishers allowed ? I'm guessing not. A; NO specila moves, including 4” skirmish move, Nomad Horse move, movement when placing stakes, riding horses etc.
Page 4 para 2 is incomplete. How should it finish ?
A: I think this is what you are referring to – if not give me the first few words of the paragraph and I will answer the correct question “If two units charged the same flank the unit would have three models to allocate between the two attackers it could allocate those as 1 & 2 or 3 & 0. Which units these models fight is declared before any dice are rolled and only models which survive may fight back. Then see how many attacks the attacker has, work out how may the unit would have against that number of models (remembering you are fight the flanks particularly against cavalry) if they maximised contact. If the charged unit wins the combat it could move additional models to its flank and then allocate the attacks differently, in the next combat round” Page 5 para 1. Q: Does close combat refer to the close-combat phase ? A: YES Therefore, if you fight the baggage escorts, you may not sack the baggage until the next combat phase. - Correct Similarly, if you pursue into baggage - pursuit normally occurs after the combat phase, therefore you cannot sack it until the next combat phase. Is this correct ? A: -YES
Are a minimum number of models required to sack baggage ? At least a unit strength of 5 ? A: YES minimum strength of 5 required to sack baggage
If an elephant stampedes into anybody’s baggage, should the baggage be destroyed ? A - if the baggage is unguarded the elephant will end its move in contact and automatically destroy the baggage at the end of the combat phase. A baggage element destroyed in this way is worth 0 points to any player. If the Baggage was guarded the elephant fights the guards, but win or lose will not destroy the baggage as it baggage is sacked at the end of a combat phase in which the attacker did not fight.
At what point in the turn sequence does baggage leave the table ? Does baggage or its escort only have to touch the table-edge in order to depart ? A: once any part of the baggage is off the edge of the table the baggage is off – merely touching the edge is not enough – to borrow a phrase from American football you must “break the plane”
Scenario 2. Page 8 Mist.If a unit scatters through another unit, does it stop, pass-through, bounce-off or what ? The unit should pass though – it will move the minum additional distance to clear the unit it is passing though in this was
Are elephants affected by mud or snow, if yes, what speed reduction ? Treat elephants as “Cavalry”- so -2” to the base move
Does an element of baggage block line of sight for missile fire and/or impart soft cover for troops behind it ? Baggage blocks LOS for missile fire and Charges.
Can baggage be targeted/ destroyed by naffatum or cannon-fire ? NO also note cannon fire that goes through a baggage unit does no damage to the baggage
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Post by wstevens on Aug 12, 2014 13:08:42 GMT
If the baggage is attacked in the flank with and without escort is it subject to a panic test in both instances? I think yes.
Also if charged by the elephant is the baggage subject to terror via a stampede as the baggage has horses or is it counted as non-entity baggage driven by Mongolian gophers? If it is escorted is it subject to fear or terror from elephants - in other words is it counted as cav or infantry at that time? Elephants always seem to open a new can of worms!
So can a stampeding elephant claim / sack baggage as the way you have it written here - "If the Baggage was guarded the elephant fights the guards, but win or lose will not destroy the baggage as if baggage is sacked at the end of a combat phase in which the attacker did not fight" suggests it can. From the rules of elephant pursuing after combat (remember its still in stampeded mode) then I would have thought the baggage was destroyed, as this contradicts what you said about stampeding elephants in contact with the baggage which destroys it.
Happy with all the rest they all makes sense.
Noted that you more or less confirmed my attitude towards the last baggage getting off - its all about keeping the baggage away from the enemy. Still if its off the table its guaranteed points which the opponent can't get if its still on the table.
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Post by davep2 on Aug 12, 2014 16:22:08 GMT
Thanks Simon. All clear except page 4 para 2. the baggage is then placed at the rear of the capturing unit facing either the direction the unit is facing. Dave.P
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Post by davep2 on Aug 12, 2014 18:56:26 GMT
Is baggage subject to Ld/panic tests. What is its leadership ? Is it formed or skirmish ? Does it use the general's leadership ? Are my baggage animals used to my elephants?
Treating elephants as cavalry in the mud and snow initially seemed reasonable - but remember that elephants can't march-move, so they are slowed more than anything-else.
Dave.P again
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Post by andym on Aug 13, 2014 4:50:44 GMT
Hi Simon
Can you give me a link to or put on the forum the rules for stakes, I can't find them in the rules or AoA errata's. Cheers
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Post by wstevens on Aug 13, 2014 12:42:28 GMT
Andy I have looked everywhere myself and I can't find any errata or even rules in the book or on the WAB forum. So it would be safe to assume that the rules in the Armies of Chivalry (AOC) book page 9 still apply.
" These negate all strength bonuses for mounted models attacking across them and also negate first charge (ferocious charge. Units with the warband special ability that place stakes and are positioned in contact to defend them, are not subject to WArband rule 2. Only formed units may place stakes, and skirmishing units never benefit from them. Only the unit that places stakes can benefit from them. Once the placing unit moves out of contact with the stakes for any reason the stakes are lost and removed from the game.
Stakes can be placed when a unit is deployed on the table. In addition , a unit equipped with stakes may make a free 4 inch move after deployment is complete and then place their stakes. If not placed at deployment or after the free 4 inch move, stakes are lost as they cannot be placed after the start of the game."
Simon will either yes or no this... but safe bet that this is how it will be.
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