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Post by zedeyejoe on May 26, 2012 15:39:05 GMT
OK to follow the, what alternatives there are to WAB2 asked in the thread about WAB2 errata.
I have both CoE and War and Conquest (WC?). I have yet to play WC but it is pretty.
On Clash of Empires I think inadequate play-testing was done, this has produced an unbalanced game.
My main problem is with combat. Great Escape kept the 'chargers strike first' rule and then proceeded to add to it, so charging Warband get to; throw their javelins as they charge, add 1 to their fighting characteristic, fight in 1 and 1/2 ranks (even if using rhomphaia). Then if they win they increase the effect of the win by one level.
Sorry that is too good for me. I think it would work if the standard rule was both sides hit at the same time, then all those advantages might mean extra casualties but not reduce the enemy ability to fight back as well.
I was going down to the CoE at the Triples but was (and am) ill so could not go. Otherwise I would have been taking Seleucids with 4 point archers (compared to a legionary at 22 pts) and cataphracts with a 2+ save, fight in two ranks and get a rank bonus of 2.
With a bit of work I think it would make a good set but will it get changed?
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Post by carl on May 26, 2012 15:51:49 GMT
not played either to be honest but like Hail Caesar as a game mechanic better than any others
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Post by zedeyejoe on May 26, 2012 20:18:38 GMT
I am not a fan of the movement system in HC or the game mechanics of the units. Also a lack of character to the armies (a unit of that type is a unit of that type regardless of the army it belongs to). Basically just a re-vamp of the Warmaster Ancients rules, which I play with 10mm or 6mm figures.
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Post by carl on May 26, 2012 21:27:55 GMT
cant comment on warmaster ancients as never played them, but the fact that unit types are just that, unit types, it relies on how you use them rather than in some games as to whom has the most powerful of the same/similar units. personally, i like the simplicity of that and the games we have played at the club have all gone down well, and were well received at kelmarsh last year
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Post by Simon Robinson on May 26, 2012 21:29:39 GMT
I find CoE to be "fiddly" WAB - but will probably re-read it once I have checked out WaC.
HC is good for a certain style / level of game - it does what it was designed to do.
WAB has a different style / level so if people feel it necessary to abandon a perfectly good rules set just because it's vendors did then WaC / CoE are currently the closest equivalents - that I'm aware of
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Post by wstevens on May 26, 2012 22:23:51 GMT
Why is there a sudden cry to start playing other systems just because of the seemingly bad news this week? Yes I may look at them but I will still be playing WAB2 for many years to come. As it is I would see these other historical rules as an addition to the games I play but not as an alternative. Learning new rules sets is always a bit of a bain with me and even if I have the rule book I will be none the wiser until I actually play it with someone who has at least an inkling of what does what.
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Post by carl on May 26, 2012 22:32:04 GMT
dont think anyone is talking about ditching wab2 in favour of one or more of the alternatives, as they are simply that, alternatives, as you also state.
however if wab2 is the last version and the 2nd AoA book is 'lost' in the ether then it wont do the game any favours.
personally out of all of them i would play Hail Caesar over the others, closely followed by WAB2
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Post by Kierons on May 27, 2012 10:17:51 GMT
I just thought it would be good to get a feeling for other systems that people may already have/use.
WAB2 is lovely, and im lucky enough to have the 2nd AoA book as well, and I will be playing it for many years to come.
BUT, going forward to next year when we do the next Axes tourny, will we want to do it with a system that new players cant purchase?, and a system that doesnt have any long term future/support with new/updated lists? (Unless GW see the error of their ways...).
Kieron
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Post by zedeyejoe on May 27, 2012 10:28:45 GMT
Yes it was because of the comments about ditching WAB2 and moving on to something else for tournaments (which enviably become the game that people play). I agree that WAB2 has not changed and that you have everything that you had before. However the WHH site with all its documents is gone. Where are the errata and new lists that Martin sent to WHH? I know I cannot host them because after giving GW grief for using my transfers in their books, they would quite rightly be on me like a ton of bricks. And of course what would someone who wants to start WAB2 do, where would they get a copy of rules and army lists? That is the disadvantage of keeping the sales under one roof, there are not tons of little stockpiles of the rules that we can tap into.
Clash of Empires is my preferred alternative but at the moment it is a cheese-fest that I would prefer not to go down.
And the ditching of the historical rules I feel was part of a strategic decision on the part of GW. One of their main aims is to keep customers solely within 'the GW hobby' where they meet all their needs with; rules, figures, paints, glues, dice, terrain you name it. To play their historical games you need suppliers other than GW (hell I even managed to get a reference to VVV into WAB2) and that might detract from their core games. Times are hard for all game businesses, even GW. They may even get harder if the 30%-60% price rise I have heard about is implemented. The question has been asked, by me 3 or so years ago and in the last couple of days by others, none of the WHH rules will be available for others to develop. So it is the end of the road for everything that WHH was selling.
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Post by carl on May 27, 2012 11:08:14 GMT
30 - 60% increase if it does come about is crazy even for GW to consider surely.
if they do this then i think we will see another major shift in what people do as the cost will be way too extreme for most of their customer base to endure or afford.
but on the other hand, i think their competitors are rubbing their hands if this news is true. we will just have to wait and see.
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Post by wstevens on May 27, 2012 11:39:37 GMT
30-60% ? Now I have something really to moan about if that's true. So x10 plastic greatswords may cost me £40? Seriously I can't believe that. On the historical comments I can see Kieron's point about Axes next year and new players that may be interested may not get what they are after. However some tournaments in the past have actually given lists in their rulespacks for those that didn't have books. Toy Soldier had a couple of lists on that. There are a number of older historical rule sets that are played and supported by the players themselves. Don't know if I am right or wrong on this but don't DBM and WRG players have this type of support?
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Post by zedeyejoe on May 27, 2012 11:51:54 GMT
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Post by tiger1 (Paul) on May 27, 2012 22:49:41 GMT
Wab2 will still have life for comps for many years, COE and WC have yet to attract anything like the fan base that WAB has.
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Post by Simon Robinson on May 28, 2012 16:20:55 GMT
based on wayland games' newsletter average GW increase is 12%.
One item did increase by 63%, but that was movment trays which jumped from £6-15 to £10-00.
not as bad as feared
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Post by carl on May 28, 2012 16:25:18 GMT
12% is still steep based on the current climate of economic gloom.
glad i dont buy their stuff anymore
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